The Wild Wild Web – My wife and I had a foursome last night.

My wife and I had a foursome last night.

Editor’s note: This true story from the wild wild web brought up so many different emotions in me that I had to share with the readers of our blog. Although I have never went as far as the anonymous author, in my mind I had.  I experienced a lot of his feelings and feel the aftermath for me would be the same as it was for him.  The author is a true introvert and the way his brain processes his experiences is very much like mine.   Although this actual situation with me couldn’t have happened, as I am extremely, at times, irrationally, protective of my relationship with my wife.  If I felt something was wrong, everything around me would have stopped.  The one couple we did meet, even without intentions on a first meeting, I knew eating dinner with them at a restaurant that I could never be a part of any situation where I would be sexually involved with another couple.  Not only did I stop it in my mind immediately, I announced to the couple at the table that I would never meet another couple in the lifestyle again.  Not that they were bad people, but I already felt what I needed to feel.  I knew it wasn’t going to ever be something I wanted to do. 

With that said, this story below is a great read for those that are thinking about experiencing a mmf threesome or a mfmf foursome.  The thoughts afterwards and the way he deals with his emotions, is very much like how I deal with my own.   And at some point in my own relationship, we did discuss the idea of having sex in the same room as another couple.  I really just wanted to see naked people having sex like a live porno.  It would be exciting to see other bodies, while at the same time get watched ourselves. We had already been on webcams and it turned us both on to see comments from others while we fucked.   So the concept wasn’t foreign, we were just totally protected because there was no chance of making mistakes through a webcam.

I’d suggest any couple thinking about soft swinging, or has thoughts of playing with another couple that swings, read this story carefully.  If you have already tried soft or hard swinging or maybe experimented with another couple and things didn’t work out the way you thought they would, maybe this article can help articulate other thoughts in your mind you may not have already thought about.   For women interested in the lifestyle but not sure how to bring it up with their significant other, this may help you understand why those fantasies could be detrimental to your relationship.  

My wife and I had a foursome last night with another couple.  I’m having a hard time dealing with it. Originally posted  by an anonymous author on Reddit, July 2013.  

A Foursome Gone Wrong. The Original Post:

July 26 1:00 P.M.  We took a cab back to our place, where they’d planned to stay since the beginning of the night. It went normal enough at first, we made drinks, popped popcorn, etc. But Sally was drunk and a wild women. All pretenses of them being swingers and us not, and of my wife not knowing – were out the window. Sally was talking about how much she loves sucking cock and whatnot. Now, my wife likes women, and when they first brought it up I stayed quiet – I was ok with her doing it but I wanted my wife to say so. She told Sally she wants her but doesn’t care about the boys, and asked to go to the bedroom. Sally said right here is more fun and they started making out and taking off each others clothes. Harry and I were sitting on the floor. I was watching and enjoying it. Sally told Harry to take off his clothes, he started to, I looked at my wife, she nodded for me to do the same. She looked confident and unafraid. They “fell” on the floor (Sally was trying to bring the party to everyone). Then we moved to the bedroom.

My wife was kissing all over Sally. I got beneath my wife and started eating her out. Sally started giving me head, my wife started giving Harry head, and it had started, we were all having fun. It was exciting. Then, and I’m not exactly sure of the logistical details, Harry is having sex with my wife. Neither Sally nor I are touching them. I go soft, and feel scared, but my wife is enjoying herself, so I try to show Sally a good time too. I’m not having fun anymore. I’m trying not to look at them and focus on Sally. She can see it in my face, “You want your wife don’t you.” I do. But do nothing. Harry finishes but the night continues without skipping a beat. I’m doing this all wrong now. I can only get hard for my wife, then not at all. But I stagger on. Later I’m foreplaying with Sally and my wife and Harry are doing the same, behind and perpendicular to me at the head of the bed. I’m still distracted, soft. I hear my wife, “Fuck me. Please fuck me.” Then I can feel them going behind me.

My heart is breaking, Sally is kind of oblivious. I’m sucking her nipples, trying to get in the spirit, but eventually I just kind of collapse on her. I push my face up against hers hard, cheek to cheek and up against her neck, the same way I do when I feel a lot of love for my wife. I kiss her desperately, the way I do when I’m feeling passionate for my wife. But she doesn’t kiss like my wife or feel like my wife. I want so much for Sally to make me feel better with her presence, make me feel safe and loved the way my wife does; because my wife is fucking someone behind me and I can feel her body getting thrusted back and forth against my feet and I can hear her moans. But Sally can’t make me feel better that way. I apologize to Sally and cling to her tight. I’m going to cry. I apologize to Sally for my limp dick. She’s kind. Sally is a wonderful, kind woman really. I whisper, “This is hurting me. I’m scared.” “Its hurting you?” “I’ll remember what’s happening right now forever.” She tells me I’m a good man and that I’m sweet, then gets up and whispers something to Harry. They make haste to the guest bedroom. I tell my wife I’m sorry, and that I never expected that to happen. I didn’t know I’d react that way. She says its ok and that I need to fuck her to get it out of my head. She’s drunk. She doesn’t realize I’m in a lot of pain. I lay on the ground. I can’t be in that spot. She keeps telling me to go up there and I say I can’t right now. She just kept saying to come up there and fuck her.

I got up and went to the store to buy a pack of cigarettes. I quit three weeks ago. 🙁

I sat on the porch smoking them until Harry and Sally woke up. Harry had to be somewhere early. I called my best friend, he lives far away, over and over but he didn’t pick up. I texted him “Please pick up. I need ya right now man.” “Please pick up.” “Please help me.” I relived the painful moments over and over. I wondered if things would ever be the same. Are we going to get a divorce. Was he better at sex than me. Did he make her come harder. Does she still love me? I want to burn that bed. I’ll never do karaoke again. I want to shave my head. Will I still love her? Bash my head against the wall. Burn the whole fucking house down. I want to lay down and die. All kinds of irrational and confused thoughts. I went upstairs to talk to my wife. She still wasn’t with it enough to realize I was in trouble, but Harry and Sally did. When I came out they had left, they must’ve heard me. I jumped in the car and found them about two blocks away, walking back to the bar. I picked them up. It was awkward but not too bad. I like them a lot and they are good people. I was able to be a little funny, and make sure they didn’t feel too bad. I don’t feel like I can be friends with them anymore though.

I went up stairs and my wife was starting to understand. She didn’t even realize Sally and I didn’t actually fuck. My wife told me I needed to fuck her. Show me she’s mine. It was hard and angry sex. It didn’t make me feel better. We talked about things a bit more. I went back and forth from reasonable, rational conversation about what happened, to catatonic hurt, with my face in my hands seeing Harry fuck her in my mind, hearing her beg him for it, feeling like the life had gone out of me.

I asked my wife, if I could’ve handled it, if I could handle it, was it something that she would want to keep doing. She said yes. It was fun.

I don’t know where to put these images of her. I don’t know what to do with these feelings. I’m scared for what will happen to us. We love each other very much, but my heart keeps getting broken over and over. I can’t distract myself. I can’t put things in a perspective that doesn’t hurt. I know no ones to blame and no one did anything wrong per se. But it won’t stop flashing into my head and crushing me and emptying me out. I can’t get it to stop.

What did I do to us? I feel like its all my fault somehow. What do I do now?

Editor’s note:  Although at first we were only going to blog the original story, we decided to add the anonymous author’s follow up.  Our blog’s goal has always been to share our life’s stories, sex or otherwise, and maybe help other couples in the process.  As you read you can see how the author processes what he has done, how he feels, and eventually how he resolves his issues.  It is very interesting and if you want an ending to the real life drama above, then read below.  

After Posting on Reddit about A Foursome Gone Bad, reading comments, the author responds:

July 26, 9:30 P.M. My wife and I have been reading the comments and messages the last post got from reddit all day. You’ve all acted like facilitators in the conversation we desperately needed to have. Thank you. We talked about the way we felt and the way we feel. The hardest part, but the most therapeutic I think, was the conversation we had rebuilding what happened. I told her the nitty gritty details of the sex acts that were haunting me and it actually felt good. It felt good to share out loud what my brains been making me see all day. She didn’t even remember a lot of it. Facing it made me remember other things too. The moments she looked at me with her “sex eyes.” She thought I was enjoying it but I didn’t give myself a chance to remember those moments. She believed we were on an adventure together; but was too drunk and enraptured to read me. We both understand how the other feels now.

It still hurts to think about it, but her face is back. She looked different to me this morning but thats gone now. My wife is back. We’re a team again, and we’re not really happy with Harry and Sally. We both feel a bit like victims. Obviously her reasons are different from mine but the bottom line is Harry and Sally lead us down a road we’d’ve never found without them, and they didn’t tell us what me might find – and it damaged our relationship. My wife is not to blame for being swept into a situation neither of us were prepared for, and happening to enjoy it. She would give up anything to spare me that kind of pain, let alone last nights activities.

Still regretting..

July 27, 12:00 A.M.  Nevermind:

If only that last update could be the truth. It was mania. Or a stage of loss or something. This is going to take a long time. We’re going to find a counselor. Things are getting worse. I’m less rational. I want to fucking kill Harry. I hate him so much I just want to fucking destroy him. And.. I don’t know. Just thought I’d let everyone know, it ain’t that easy…

July 28, 1:19 A.M.  Dirty Harry: 

Hello everyone. Thank you everyone for the kind words of support, the long messages filled with heartfelt advice, the reassurance that our love was and is a precious thing, the compliments (I’ve learned that flattery can penetrate even the thickest layers of hurt. Wife: “Someone said you write like Chuck Palahniuk.” Me amid agony: “… someone really said that?”.) and most of all, thank you for the tears you shed with me.

I decided to stop reading the comments and messages here for a while. There are far too many things that can hurt me being said and I have no protection right now. Everyone has direct access to my heart and its dangerous out there. I opened them for a second today and the first thing I read said something about my wife dreaming about that moment with Harry the rest of her life. Its not true, but even if it were I don’t need to see that right now. My wife tells me there are dozens of people who say its prevented them them from making the same mistake we did, or realize what their lover is going through, so I’m not going to take it down. Also I don’t want to. Because I’m still hurting and this is my expression and I’m glad people are still feeling with me. It sounds strange but again, thanks for the tears. Feels kind of like you’re here with me.

I don’t want to kill Harry anymore. I told him to be more careful next time. He said he blames himself and hes so sorry. He can fuck off but I don’t want to kill him. He’s a good guy. He fucked up.

Unfortunately for those of you pleading for an update on my wife and I, that will take months. I can say the very worst moments of yesterday occurred far less today. And for a moment, my wife and I had true happiness like it used to be. We were buying Wendy’s food and joking, I can’t remember what about. I love her so very much. She feels the same about me. She’s also terrified, and going though a lot of shame and disgust that she doesn’t deserve. We’re getting better. I asked her not to go to sleep tonight because last night was hard for me. She’s downing coffee like no ones business. Its cute. We’re in a horrible, curious place; its full of fear, but also full of desperate love.

August 8, 4:11 A.M.  Revising History to Accept Their Actions: 

If you recall my wife and I were in a scary, curious place; full of desperate love. In hindsight it was a dangerous haze of denial. We surmised that we’d been taken advantage of, Harry and Sally meticulously rolled out a plan to get their rocks off and we had been their victims. The therapist we saw latched onto this. My wife had been raped in front of me, she said, and I recognized it, hence my terror and trauma and flashbacks. Not only that, but Harry targeted my wife because I was a sensitive and trusting man; because he could, “Do anything he wanted to her and knew you wouldn’t stop him.” I went home devastated. My wife was positively chipper and I was cramping her style. My prying and desperate attempts to reconnect climaxed with her shouting, finger pointed at me in rage, “I GOT RAPED AND YOU JUST SAT THERE AND FUCKING WATCHED!!” I smashed a lounge chair we had on our porch and threw it out into the road. It was one of two lounges we got on our wedding day. It broke my heart to return to the porch and see only one chair. I wanted so much to undo what I’d done to the chair, we loved sitting in these chairs together on the porch. I ruined it. And her. Because I didn’t just sit there and watch, I facilitated and encouraged the whole thing.

We saw a second doctor the next day, a real psychologist this time. He spent 25 minutes on my wifes rape before he brought up psychosexual trauma and flashbacks, at which point she directed his attention to me and I broke down. The next morning my wife said it wasn’t rape because, “When it was hot, it was hot.” and raised the question of a threesome with her and another woman. I put a shotgun in my mouth the next morning. My brain has never been so split in two. I truly believed that both my wife had been raped and I sat back and watched, and that my wife had been unfaithful and dishonest. There was pain coming from too many directions for me to know how to fight it or stop it. I got an emergency counseling session. The counselor assured me I wasn’t crazy and encouraged me to talk with my wife about what happened, that there was truth to be found. It didn’t take long.

My wife admitted she was interested in Harry beforehand. She noticed him noticing her the last time we got together and played cards. The night of the foursome he’d asked for permission to enter her in a whisper, she granted it to him. I wanted to leave her then and there but I couldn’t. She was crying so hard, she said she didn’t know how much her deception was hurting me. She didn’t know what she was doing. That night I got out the shotgun, my counselor told me to get it out of the house. I emptied it, the shells popped out on the bed we’d moved into the living room for me. It spooked my wife. I thought I was okay but I laid on the couch and my wife couldn’t find me. She was blurry and I was more catatonic than I’ve ever been in my life. She was holding my face and trying to get a better angle. She started crying. “Where are you!? Where are you?! You look like an old person! DID YOU TAKE THAT BOTTLE OF ZOLOFT!?!” I didn’t. She called my name a few times then took me to my parent’s house. The next morning I told her to leave, I didn’t care where. She went to my sister’s house. I told my parents what happened. They were hurt. I went to my sisters. My wife wasn’t willing to let go of her defensiveness. The defensiveness that led me to believe I was instrumental in her rape, the defensiveness that almost killed me. But I think I drove her to it.

I told her to go to her family, four hours away. I’ll go to mine. She was on her knees begging me not to go. Leaving her there was one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do.

She confessed to her family, she heard her uncle say she’d be out the fucking door if it were up to him. She was frank with my family, promised she wouldn’t hurt me anymore. It took courage. And I’m grateful she got to that point because I couldn’t take being apart from her and she couldn’t take being apart from me. In a way we’re back where we started, only this time I’m on a bunch of pills and we’re both more aware of our own denial. I was instrumental in what happened that night. I would even say I put on a brave face and encouraged it as it was going on. She was more than willing, she was enraptured.. didn’t need me. We have a lot to work out but a lot of love to work with.

August 8, 1:00 P.M.  Jerking off In Hell: 

I tossed, turned, paced, typed, desperately cuddled, and jerked off in hell last night. But I made a breakthrough. This entire time I’ve been claiming, to therapists, myself, and everyone around me that I accept equal blame for the foursome and for getting my wife and I into a situation where she slept with another man. I’ve been saying I accept equal blame, but I hadn’t truly believed it. Laying in bed, dancing around the room the night my wife fucked that man, trying to get a better angle of the action in my memory, trying to understand what happened, I tried something I hadn’t: I changed some things about the situation, using the same people, the same night, the same memory. I tried to build my fantasy out of that night. Now, when I stick my dick in my wife’s face, after I walked in from the bathroom and saw her sucking Harry’s dick, she accepts it. In reality she was unwilling to touch either cock when I re-entered. But in my fantasy she goes back to Harry’s dick, then mine again. Sally is eating her out, like she was. Then, back in reality, back to laying in bed with my wife on August the 8th, my dick got stiff. Holy shit. I imagine me sticking my dick in my wife’s mouth while Harry drills her, I’m rock hard. I invent new things, my wife riding me reverse cowgirl, sucking Harry’s dick while Sally sits on my face. I went to the bathroom and jerked off imagining Harry, then me, cumming in both our wives mouths. Sally and my wife share a sloppy, unending, cum soaked french kiss. They are still making out when I start fucking Sally and Harry starts fucking my wife. I grab a pillow and push it under my wife where she likes it, so Harry can get a better angle to reach her spot, then lean in and make out with my wife while I fuck Sally. Jizz all over the bathroom floor. Clean it up with toilet paper and a wet rag.

I realize my complete and utter culpability in what happened. I realize why the night took a psychological turn for me when it did. With my wife’s pussy on my face, Sally sucking my dick, and Harry in my wife’s mouth, my fantasy had come true. Harry fucking my wife while Sally pulled me away, demanding all my attention, was a nightmare came true. But my wife didn’t know how to have sex any other way. It was a one on one deal. And she doesn’t “love cock,” she loves getting fucked and having her pussy eaten. She wasn’t comfortable, or wasn’t ready, to have a dick in each hand; to have a dick in her pussy and a dick in her mouth. How can I blame her for staying within her comfort zone when I’m guilty of doing the exact opposite and having hell to pay for it? Plus I’m pretty sure Harry and Sally were in it for the swap, not the group sex, and they had the reins.

I should also update you all on what we’ve learned of Harry and Sally. I haven’t been able to face or speak to Harry yet and I’m not going to push that, but I’ve talked to Sally on the phone several times. Sally’s sister is so active in the lifestyle she has a nickname. She is headmaster and host to sex parties under her pseudonym. It turns out Harry and Sally were inspired by her but had never been with another couple before, only another man. They don’t have the internet so I doubt they read the codes conscientious swingers live by regarding unprepared couples. I’m still not happy with them as Sally said they’d talked about it for months before actually going through with it, a benefit their lust was unable to grant my wife and I. Nonetheless, they were simply drunk and overexcited about their first real “swing.” I’m pretty certain they hadn’t talked about the ramifications they’re lifestyle might have on the couples they “have.”

I’m still hurt. I’m still hurting. But I’m learning. And I have respect for my wife and her actions, her open mindedness. The bitterest pill remains the denial that led me into a tailspin – my wife’s laying all the blame on me then abandoning me. But I can’t say I’m guilt free from that situation either. I must’ve driven her crazy with my obsession to understand what had happened, my denial and the blame I put on her for doing what she was comfortable with. The fact remains, however, that I was suicidal and I never explicitly put all the blame on her or stopped trying to reassure her that I understood and it was okay; even if inside I didn’t feel that way. She did put all that blame on me and abandon me psychologically when I needed her most. She needs to make it up to me. I don’t like that, “I was drunk so it was rape!” shit anyways, let alone the incredible burden it put on me. Would she have gone through with it if we’d called the cops? I don’t think so. And I suppose that’s why it disturbs me so much. She had a fuzzy view of the plug indeed, but I feel she saw it and could’ve pulled it sooner than she did.

August 9, 5:00 A.M.  Life Isn’t A Porno:

If we’ve learned one thing about this whole experience, it would be the amazing lengths we’ll go to avoid seeing who we really are. My wife and I never talk about sex. We’ve never talked about it. We both have deep insecurities regarding it. We both made mistakes that night. We both feel sad about what happened, and we’re both learning things about each other that we never knew we weren’t talking about. She lied about having other lovers before we were together and never told me, all these years, that I was only the second man she’d ever been with. I’d never told her that I was a terrible lover before I met her. I slept with many women in college but I didn’t even know nipples were erogenous zones; I talked the talk but couldn’t walk the walk.

We’ve never been able to talk about sex truthfully. One of us always gets jealous or angry. And now we have this to show for it. It turns out my wife feels like she missed out on being with different men. Those are things we should’ve been able to talk about before but she’s always been very uncomfortable talking about sex. She liked Harry, he was suitable, and she took her shot while she was drunk and I was trying to make a four way porno fantasy come true. She’d only had one lover before me. Apparently its a thought thats been on her mind for years. She wanted to have sex with him. I wanted some porno fantasy where my wife sucks two dicks and gets eaten out by another chick. I do blame myself, but its not, and it wasn’t my responsibility alone to prevent us from making mistakes. I take equal share but its our job, if we were going to be a monogamous couple, to communicate when something needs to change. We failed at that as a unit. She failed as a wife and I failed as husband.

Also, regarding the trauma, I think that may be something hard for poly people to relate to. My notion of who my wife was got destroyed in an instant. We’ve been ignoring our sex life for years and she was a conservative, one man kind of woman. When we first slept together she assured me she’s “not that kind of girl,” and that it wasn’t a free ride. If we were going to have sex it meant I was making a commitment to her. That was the woman I married, and she’s changed over the years (obviously). I’m trying to figure out who the love of my life is in the present. To see her like that, beneath another man so abruptly, shook all my notions of reality. My entire concept of love and sexuality were so inextricably tied together and to her, that when I heard her say “FUCK ME. PLEASE FUCK ME.” to another man, and I knew I was nowhere in her mind.. well it was like wile-e-coyote with that box of TNT. Everything I knew about sexuality exploded into nothing, and it was so interwoven with the concept of love and marriage that it took a huge chunk out of that as well.  There was an odd moment yesterday when I brought up an old partner and she became upset and jealous. “Can we please stop talking about this!?” It wasn’t even a flattering story. It showed just how little, or how differently, she was affected by all this compared to me. “Babe, after seeing and hearing you beg Harry to fuck you, you could tell me your first boyfriend had the fattest dick in the world and made you cum four times a day and it wouldn’t phase me.”

I’m much better for it. I’ll admit that. My love and faith in her is stronger now, because it doesn’t have to lean on inadequate sex. I’m also a much better lover. It’s as though all the jealousy and fear and pressure of sex, and that stupid feeling that she might not love me if I didn’t provide it well enough, have vanished into thin air.

August 13, 1:15 A.M. Jealousy:

I’m trying to understand why it seems like I’m hurting more than my wife. She is getting a lot more comfortable talking about things. She’s always avoided talking about sex and her desires, even with her girlfriends growing up and in college. We’re realizing there are lots of fun and adventurous things both of us have wanted to for a long time. We can actually do them now. We are actually a stronger couple because of what happened. But it bugs me that she can still be jealous of my past lovers. I don’t understand how she could sleep with another man, in the same bed as me, without asking me first or grabbing my hand or making eye contact with me; in fact, be so fixated on Harry that she doesn’t care or notice what I’m doing with Sally at all, and not reevaluate her notions of jealousy and sex. I asked her the other day how she feels about things now. How the fact that she slept with another man makes her feel. It wasn’t about shaming her, it was about communicating. She said, “I guess its weird that I actually did that.. but I feel fine about it.”

I think part of our differences revolve around the ideological value of the fantasies we were drunkenly playing out. My fantasy of group sex was just that, pure fantasy. It was not something I assigned any value to or felt any real need to fulfill. In contrast, her fantasy about seeing what its like to be with other men, though I know she never would’ve acted on it in normal circumstances, actually held some value to her. A part of her truly yearned for it, and thought it was an important life experience she missed out on. It was something she felt at least some need to fulfill.

In other words, what happened that night actually was a part of her sexual identity. Her notions of sexuality didn’t need to be shattered because there was a place for a situation like that to go in her mind. To me, her having intimate one on one sex with another man was so alien to what I knew about us, it invalidated everything. I’ve been having to rebuild, while my wife has been building a place to put that experience for years. It doesn’t mean she’s glad it happened, it just means she was more prepared to handle the act itself: one on one sex with another man. I’m sure we both would feel very strange in the morning if my fantasy had played out rather than the simple swap that happened,  but there wouldn’t be such a huge gap in our respective abilities to cope with it.

September 22, 2013.  Silence:

My tragic saga has begun to feel like everyday life. That’s why I haven’t written about it, blog silent for a month.

I’ve done all the figuring about the incident I think I need to do, and I settled on a fairly simple truth: my wife made a drunken mistake; not a particularly malicious one either, but one whose consequences were incredible. I decided long ago to forgive her for that mistake. The weeks and weeks I spent lost in a carousel of suspicions, franticly, deliriously ruminating over each and every memory of the incident, every move my wife and I made before and after, digging and digging deeper and deeper into every plausible scenario and motivation; all to come to those six words: My wife made a drunken mistake. It seems crazy, like I just went off the deep end – maybe I did and that’s just what it took – but it really wasn’t about figuring out that my wife made a drunken mistake, it was about becoming the person that could accept it.

That doesn’t mean it’s all better. It kind of feels like I killed this thing that was trying to kill me, and even though I won, I still have to live with its rotting corpse.

I don’t even really think about what happened all that much anymore, but I think I lost something I used to use to validate myself along the way. I have intense feelings of worthlessness. I’ve had the thought “I hate myself” before but its usually come amid some heightened state of emotion. Its just there now, with no cause for alarm. Sweeping the porch, cooking eggs, thoughts of self-loathing drift into my mind like that shirt I really like but haven’t seen in a while, or how much I miss that bakery we used to live by. I’m at times intensely and immaturely insecure, “Do they like me? They don’t like me.” I find myself seeking validation through the lowest common denominators: looks, charm, being cool. I care less about being smart and more about seeming smart. I think about the people around me and what I need to do to get them to like me. I suck my stomach in when I’m wearing a tight shirt. I won’t pass a pull-up bar without casually showing off how many I can do. Sometimes my brain begs for peace and quiet but I just.. won’t.. shut.. THE.. FUCK.. UP!!! YOU FUCKING DOUCHBAG! You are embarssing yourself..

Everyone in my family is crazy, save my dad. My brother killed himself, my sister tried to kill herself, my aunt killed herself, and my grandpa killed himself. I’ve always been grateful I managed to get the genes I needed to be a sane person. Now I think back and it seems like all of them were okay once, then they took a great big thump on the head and they could never ever get up again. I’m terrified this is me. That was it. The good me gone, the new me driven like a peg into the dirt by this giant falling pillar. I’ll never be able to get out. I’m terrified. I’m terrified. I hated my mom on all those pills. She’s different, I thought, and now I know. I never knew. The things I said… anti-depressants just enable people to not deal with their problems, if they would fix their life they probably wouldn’t be so god damned depressed. And here I am. If I didn’t have them I’m not sure I’d be alive. Thank god for modern medicine. And I hate speaking in fucking cliches! I don’t even believe in god! I never knew what it was like to be buried up to your neck. Going through the days knowing you’ll never be able to dig yourself out.

I feel like an erratic, spoiled child ruining my wife’s life. How could she still love me? There is no more me. Just a dog looking for approval, spending his days sitting, staying, and rolling over for everyone but her. I feel like dead weight clinging to her, drowning her with me. And I know if I let go I could save her but I’m just too fucking selfish.

May 23, 2014 – The Happy Ending: 

It’s really not right for me to leave this blog as it is. Sure, its a cautionary tale about communication and this and that, but I think it’s equally important to know that my marriage came out stronger that it was before.

I guess you could say I copped out when it came to writing about the aftermath, namely the recovery part.  I probably could’ve come up with a way to share it; describe a little joy I found here and there, boast about how I hadn’t cried at work in a while, how I’ve been able to sleep through the night FOR TWO WEEKS STRAIGHT!!! YEAH! But where is the line between a blog with a certain story to tell and a meandering online journal?

I suppose, all in all, the nitty gritty stuff, salacious things, are just so much easier to write about. Anger and frustration and confusion and sadness just pour out of my fingertips. Happiness, on the other hand, isn’t something that tries to claw its way out of me.

Anywho, this is the bottom line: My wife and I are madly in love. Still. Maybe now more than ever. I would say I’m proud of that but it doesn’t feel right because it was so easy. Its so easy to love her. We did some fucked up stuff for sure, when we were in that whirlwind, and maybe that slowed us down, but in the end it was just impossible for us not to love each other.

This story has a happy ending. I got the girl, and I can’t fathom a woman as close to perfection as she.  And -perhaps because of an undiagnosed concussion or something- she thinks I’m damn near perfect too.

I just fuckin’ love her.

The Wild Wild Web – I Went Fishing And Ended Up in a Porn.

I’ve decided to add yet another new category to our blog called, “The Wild Wild Web.”  Not that this category will be busy with new stuff, but I just need a place for some of these stories I read from different websites.

The story below is from a fight fan forum (boxing, muay thai, bjj) I lurk where everyday members say random things or post different stories that happen in their daily lives.  Although they are all fight fans, sometimes things get a bit random.  This is a story I recently read that made me literally spit out my drink while reading it.  I found it hilarious so I wanted to share on our blog.

John writes:

True story, this happened not two hours ago.

I left work early to hunt the wild gorillafish in a park by my house. I was out on a rocky pier happily casting away like Huckleberry Finn when I see this dark skinned girl with big tits walking out toward me with this creepy old white guy with long grey hair. He was taking lots of pictures of her, etc.

I immediately theorized that it was either a porn thing, or she thinks she’s a model so she’s letting her drug hook-up take pictures of her, whatever. Then I hear them talking and she comes up to me and asks if she can try a cast (I don’t know if he’s filming at this point, I think he was). I say OK and give her basic instructions, remaining largely impassive. I hate people, and women especially, and wait for her to do her thing but they won’t leave. They sit on a rock behind me and start making out.

So I head back toward land maybe 30 feet, and as I look back through a tree that now stands between us I see the unmistakable head bob as this guy films her sucking him off.

Closed up my tacklebox and left. I have no idea if it was just some (strange) couple filming themselves fucking or if it was a porn thing, but I think I’ve just become a pioneer in the “disinterested fisherman” cuckolding sub-genre, where a hot girl sucks a hideous guy’s dick while a white male fishes a few feet away.

I hate people, they’re disgusting.

Anyways, I’m off the porn these days, but if any of you guys in your hours of daily porn viewing come across this video, know that you’re whackin’ it with the help of john the angry fisherman.

How Much Does Penis Size Matter? by Shakti Amarantha

A great article by Shakti Amarantha from Modern Tantra

Usually we add commentary to an article but this one says it all. A few of the concepts and ideas are similar to ours but this is extremely thorough and well thought out. We decided to share with our readers and archive this blog.

How Much Does Penis Size Matter?

Penis size is a—mostly unnecessary—concern for many men, in part because they compare themselves with what they see in porn.  However, male porn stars are hired because they have freakishly large penises.  They are not normal or representative of the general population.

Most women who have actually had sex with men with porn-sized penises are quite consistent in saying they that they do not prefer it, because it is awkward and frequently painful.

As one Redditor put it:

I am an average-size girl and had to break up with a guy because his schlong was just too friggin big. I liked the dude a lot otherwise but the, er, incompatibility was just too much. It just made me dread sex because it was so uncomfortable, in any position and in any hole.

Another agreed:

I have had both [experiences with very large and very small penises] and I would just like to say that if and when given the choice between the two, I would much rather have a very small penis than a very large. Being sore for days and feeling like your cervix is beat to shit is not worth the three second orgasm it produces.

This fits what the research says.  Analyses of women’s sexual satisfaction consistently show almost no correlation with differences in erect penis size between 10 and 17cm (3.9 and 6.7 inches). That includes 95% of all adult males.

Any man who wonders whether his penis is undersized should use a ruler to measure the erect penis.  Press the end of the ruler firmly against your pubic bone and hold the ruler and the penis at right angles to your body.  Measure from the pubic bone to the tip of the glans (the head of the penis).  Then check the green line on the chart below:


Source: SCIENCE (AAAS): How big is the average penis?

Scientific surveys with actual measurements—not estimates or self-reports—consistently put the average erect penis length right around 13cm (5.1) inches, which is much less than most people guess.

For example, this major study (Am I normal? A systematic review of penis length and circumference in 15 521 men) put the average length at 13.12 cm or 5.17 inches.

Why do People Overestimate Average Penis Size?

One reason for the widespread misstatement of average length is the barrage of penis enlargement ads and emails.  Almost all of these ads claim falsely that the average length is seven inches, a length that is actually above the 98th percentile.  It’s a nonsensical number, but few people are in a position to measure a random sample of erections, so the sheer repetition of the number has imprinted it in people’s heads.

Obviously, these scam artists benefit by creating a sense of insecurity in their target audience by wildly exaggerating the norm.  If they told the truth, that 5 inches is the average and that women prefer men with normal-sized penises, who would buy their phony potions and gadgets?

Another reason is the natural tendency to exaggerate when it’s hard for people to check up on you.  In study after study, men have been shown, on average, to consistently overstate their own dimensions by an average of 1 to 2.5 centimeters (.4 inches to 1 inch).

But, oddly enough, when it comes to their partners, women tend to give even more inflated estimates than men do.  Partly this reflects the way emotions affect our judgment, but I think part of it is also a loyalty thing, because we want to represent our men in the best light.

Among lovers, research has shown that women tend to over- or under-estimate penis size according to their emotional involvement and are quite inaccurate when asked to guess the actual size of a lover’s or ex-lover’s penis.  The reality-distortion effect is reflected in this—somewhat exaggerated—chart from How Women View Penis Size Over Time:


There is only one “penis enlargement” technique that has ever been demonstrated to work reliably, and that is love!

Furthermore, there’s a curious interaction between the mythical 7″ number from the penis enlargement ads and women’s own experiences.  If a woman has had enough sexual experience to have a sense of what “average” really means, she often assumes that that average penis she has in her mind must be seven inches long.  If her current partner’s penis is a little smaller than average, she will therefore guess that it is six inches or six and a half inches instead of four inches or four and a half.

You’d think that just gripping something in your hand would let you estimate it’s length fairly accurately, but this appears not to be true.

If you’re a woman, try this:  stack your fists one on top of the other, leaving the center open like you’re gripping a vertical pole.  Look down the center and look at your hands from several angles.  Is your man’s penis really that long?

Most likely you’ll say it isn’t quite, or that it barely is.  Now do the same thing, but with a ruler in the middle of your fists.  Push your bottom hand and the base of the ruler down on a hard surface and look at what the ruler says.  If you have average hands for a woman, that will read around 14 – 15cm or 5.5 – 5.9 inches, but there’s wide variation.  I have small hands, and my two-fisted grip measures 5 inches.  A friend of mine with self-described “big peasant-girl hands” measured 7 inches.

Whatever it is, remember the number and then try that on your partner the next time he’s hard and you’re in a position to grab hold with both hands.  Does an extra inch poke out the top?  Or is there leftover space inside the top hand?

Every time during my interviews that I’ve had a woman tell me her partner’s penis was 7″ or 8″ long, I’ve asked her to do this exercise.  And all but one of them told me, either right then, looking at their hands, or later on, after physically checking, that the reality was more like 5″ or 6″ instead.

Keep this in mind when you read the comments below.  When a woman describes a penis as being “8 or 9 inches” long, in reality it almost always turns out to be 17-19cm (6.7-7.5 inches) long.

(FWIW, my impression is that there is much less distortion in descriptions of small penises.  A “3 inch” penis is probably around 2.5-4 inches.)


Stupid Media Tricks
The media also contribute a great deal to this confusion over penis size and what women want.  The popular press isn’t noted for getting science right, and reporters do love to run sensational stories about sex, so this is probably inevitable, but it leads to a lot of people thinking they know things that aren’t true.

One recent study that was widely misreported in the press found that women who were shown simple computer drawings of unknown men with limp penises (not erections) mildly preferred the men with limp penises that were three inches long, versus those that were shorter.  The same study found that having broad shoulders and a narrow waist and being tall were more important to them than limp penis size.  In fact, penis size was the least important factor in the women’s choices by a considerable margin.

So, of course, many popular newspapers and magazines and many websites responded to this innocuous little study by trumpeting headlines like “SIZE DOES MATTER!” and writing completely dishonest articles about it.

(See Do Women Prefer Well-Endowed Men? Why You Should Be Skeptical Of The New Study Claiming “Size Matters” by Dr. Justin Lehmiller for a discussion of why a visual preference for a drawing of a strange man with a limp penis has little or nothing to do with actual preferences in the bedroom.)

What Women Say About Their Experiences

If you want to get a feel for what women say about their experiences with penises of very different sizes, here’s a great collection of comments:

21 Women Reveal What It Was Like To Have Sex With A Large Or Small Penis

If there is a clear consensus, it’s that being normal-sized is good.  One woman whose first lover had an overlarge penis put it this way:

I could barely open my jaw far enough to the get the thing in my mouth. We could only have sex in missionary position because everything else hurt so badly. I was not particularly impressed with intercourse (or giving oral, for that matter).

The rest of my relationships have been with men with normal size penises. I found out, holy shit, having sex with them is fucking easy. I don’t have to use a cup of lube to have intercourse or use an ice pack on my face after giving a blow job. I don’t get what the big deal is for big dicks. Give me a normal dick any day.

Several of the women quoted in that article had experienced both large and small extremes and said that their experiences were better with the men with the smaller penises.  For the women who describe having problems with a man with a small penis, it was always because of his insecurity, not his actual penis size.

Interestingly, porn stars tend to agree. Even though one would expect “size queens,” women who have a fetish for large penises, to be over-represented in the porn industry, this doesn’t seem to be so.  Recently a reporter went around at a British porn convention and interviewed a dozen pornstars.  You can see the results here:  Pornstars Answer: Does Size Matter?

For example:  “What’s the perfect size?”

Answer:  “Actually, there’s not a perfect size.  If somebody can use it good, and it’s not really extreme, big or small, then there’s not a perfect size.”

Attitude Is Critical

It’s impossible to overstate the importance of a man’s attitude, especially his confidence and enthusiasm and his desire to do whatever it takes to make the experience great for his partner.

Three women made very similar comments about attitude on the negative side:

A lot of guys with big dicks think that all they need to be good at sex is a big dick. I’d rather take a guy with an average dick who cares about my pleasure any day.


The worst thing about a big dick is that the guy often thinks that’s all he needs to bring to the relationship.


A big dick does not mean a great partner. So much of sex is about touch, anticipation, generosity, comfort levels, [and] tenderness… things that have nothing to do with penis size and everything to do with the energy between two people.

Three more commented on the positive side:

My experience with an extremely small penis was pretty positive because the guy took amazing steps to compensate.


Small is great for anal. Also, if they are not too self-conscious about it, regular sex can be great. It has been my experience that men with smaller penises make up for it with knowing what to do with it, and knowing what to do with their hands and mouths too.


If I had to pick between the extremes, I’d rather have super small than super large. The small guys know it and they have all sorts of neat and fun tricks to make up for it. I may not have gotten off from penetration, but I certainly didn’t leave unsatisfied.

How Size Affects Style and Position

The one role that relative size does play is that it can definitely have an influence on the type of sex that works best for a couple.  This is something women need to know as well as men.

Here’s an excerpt from one of the women in that article who had had experience with men at the high end of the scale, describing the great sex she had with a man whose penis was genuinely toward the small end:

If I’m being generous I would guess it was pretty close to 3 1/2 inches, fully erect. I definitely had a moment of pause, I wasn’t expecting this… But he didn’t hesitate or apologize or wince about it and that’s what spurred me on, his own confidence.

The sex was awkward [at first]. My previous two partners had both had about 8 inches and I had grown used to a different style of fucking. I was trying to bounce around and thrust as I had done with the oversized wangs of my past, but that wasn’t working with only a few inches to stay atop of.

But I learned. The sex got better. I discovered that the rocking, grinding motion I had to adapt to to stay penetrated by this smaller penis led to amazing friction on my clit. No, I couldn’t do aerobic pornstar sex moves anymore but this newfound closeness, sliding our bodies together, grasping and pressing close, was amazing. I had my first orgasms during intercourse with this man and his small penis.

And he never apologized or flinched. Neither of us ever referred to it as a “small” penis, or otherwise. And we both shared many, many orgasms pressed tightly together…

One more comment along similar lines:

I have had micro and a guy who would make a horse jealous. I prefer the micro because well I have tiny ladybits.

The horse whipped his pants off, stood there like a porn star and said “personal lollipop”. Couldn’t blow him, my poor jaw. Sex, omg. I died. It felt like my cervix was being punched repeatedly, we had to stop.

I eventually kicked him out. Never again.

Micro guy? Dude knew how to use it, his hands, and his tongue.

Best sex ever, too bad we live cities apart.

Tl;dr: guys with big dicks can gtfo of my bedroom, small dicks are preference.

And as Amy Muise says in Supersize Me: Does Penis Size Matter to Women?

Researchers have also explored how women feel about their partner’s penis size. Most women rated their partner’s penis size as average (67%), about a quarter rated their partner’s penis as large (27%), and a few women rated their partner’s penis as small (6%).

Importantly, the vast majority of women were satisfied with their partner’s penis size (84%), and this was a significantly higher percentage than the number of men who were satisfied with their own penis size (55%). Only 14% of women wanted their partner’s penis to be larger, and, in fact, 2% wanted their partner’s penis to be smaller.

[Data from: Lever, J., Frederick, D. A., & Peplau, L. A. (2006). Does size matter? Men’s and women’s views on penis size across the lifespan.Psychology of Men & Masculinity, 7, 129-143.]

Following up on the 2% who wanted their partner’s penises to be smaller:  the charts tell us that the largest 2% are the men with penises more than 16.5cm or 6.5 inches long.

When men are surveyed, about 1.5-2% also typically wish their penises were smaller.  Again, that’s a substantial portion of the men with penises that are longer than 7 inches, plus probably a significant number of men who have very girthy penises as well, and it confirms what women are saying:  if a man is in other ways attractive and skillful, he is much more likely to be refused sex or to have his girlfriend break up with him because his penis is too large than because it is too small.

One guy put it this way:

I’m a big guy, girth and length, I’m nearly 40 now and to be honest its been a bit of a ‘pain in the arse’. I’d say 40% of the women I’ve slept with have been uncomfortable with it or asked me to take it out! I used to play a high level of amateur soccer and would shower with team mates and got the unfortunate nickname ‘horse’. I still get it now and its  difficult when my kids ask why they call me that, the usual answer is because I work on a farm. It also limits what me and my wife do in the bedroom, a lot of new positions are painful to her, and oral sex is pointless. A big cock isn’t a bed of roses!

These personal accounts fit well with other data, as my interviews and many other sources suggest that there is a noticeable decline in female sexual satisfaction as penis size increases beyond an actual 17cm, or 6.7 inches.  (Keep in mind that most women in the U.S. will describe a 17-19cm penis as being 8 or 9 inches long.)

As one woman put it:

My experience with big penises is that guys think that their junk is all they need to bring to the party. It’s like expecting that owning a Stradivarius will make you a master violinist. No, it wont.

This mirrors the many reports that suggest that men with shorter penises often make more of an effort to satisfy their partners, perhaps in compensation for their self-perceived physical shortcomings.

I have seen similar results in my own research.  The women I interviewed were all in successful long-term relationships with good, passionate sex.  As one would expect from that, none of them indicated any problems related to penis size with their current partners.  Most had had prior experience with men with larger and smaller penises, and in all cases they thought their husbands/partners were “just right.”


Three of the women had had previous encounters with unusually well-hung guys.  Their reactions were identical on two points:

A) Deep, hard penetration hurts if the penis is too long.

B) All three guys were poor lovers who seemed to count on their physical endowment to make up for their lack of skill.

Another women said that her husband’s penis is “an honest 9 inches,” at least 50% longer than her first boyfriend’s penis.  She said she found the extra length scary at first, and she echoed the other comments about the need to avoid hard, deep thrusting.  But she did say she enjoyed handling the extra length when giving a lingam massage and she said that it made some positions possible that she and the first boyfriend had never been able to do properly.

She’s a big woman, 6′ tall and athletic, and her husband is even bigger and heavier.  He’s a retired NFL lineman, so having the extra few inches gives him an additional bit of reach in positions where the extra padding on their butts and thighs creates a good deal of pelvic separation.  And, obviously, they avoid the positions that allow for the deepest penetration.

Several of the men were in the 4-4.5″ range and none of their partners had any problem with that, even though all of the women had previously dated guys whose penises were substantially longer.  The typical comment was that guys who are less built try harder and learn to be more thoughtful and skillful lovers.  The only comments I heard about wishing a penis were larger were from two women who thought it would help their men to feel less sensitive about size.

A final point on length:  vaginas also vary in length.  They all become longer as a woman becomes aroused, but the maximum does vary from one woman to the next.

Some women can accommodate a 7″ penis or longer without pain, especially if they are completely aroused.  But many women cannot, and there ends up being a certain amount of size matching by trial and error as couples get together and find out if they fit each other.


The average width of the erect penis, using laboratory measurements, not  self-reporting, is typically around 39mm, or 1.5 inches, and the average circumference is around 117mm, or 4.6 inches.  (It’s not quite 1.5 * π, or ~4.7″ because a normal penis is a flattened cylinder.)  Here’s the nomogram showing the distribution.  (Note: circumference is misleadingly called “length” in the left margin.)


Guys, if you want to measure yourself, use a tape measure or strip of paper and wrap it around the widest part of the shaft when you have a full erection.  If you use a strip of paper, use a pen to mark the point of overlap, then unroll the paper and measure to that point with a ruler.

Women quoted in the media commonly say that girth is more important than length, but I suspect that when reporters are looking for quotes, the only women with really strong preferences are those who prefer more girth.  Those are the voices that get heard and remembered, even though most women probably don’t share that preference.

I have found that there are four major exceptions to the supposed preference for girth:

  • Muscle tone:  Women with good Kegel tone (100% of my sample) say they have no preference for a large girth.  Since their PC muscles aren’t flabby, the vaginal opening contracts naturally and completely around any size shaft, so they don’t need a wide cock to fill up extra space.
  • Oral:  Oral sex is much harder with a wide penis, and deep-throating may be impossible.  Women complained of getting painful jaw cramps and having problems breathing and managing saliva with wider penises.  Wide guys who love getting oral have more problems getting women to go along.
  • Anal:  Most women who enjoy anal sex strongly prefer guys with slimmer penises.  Conversely, a guy with a lot of girth will typically find it a lot harder to convince a woman to have anal with him, and he will have a much harder time not hurting her even if she agrees to try it.
  • Menopause:  After menopause, many women experience shrinkage and loss of elasticity in the vaginal area.  The limit varies, but the post-menopausal women I’ve talked to say that anything more than around 5″ in circumference can cause major pain unless they get a lot of foreplay and are well-lubed and completely warmed up before penetration.  A 6.5″ circumference may make vaginal sex impossible after menopause, even in the best of circumstances.  What’s worse, there’s no reliable way to tell in advance which women are going to end up in this situation!

Overall, some of these women wished their guys were less wide, but none wished for greater girth.

Advice for Women

He is too long for me;   full penetration really hurts.

First, you need to lay down the law: his penis isn’t allowed in until you are FULLY aroused. No quickies.  No “I’m still dry, so use a whole lot of lube.”  If he’s so proud of his cock that he thinks he doesn’t need to do anything else for you, or if he just won’t take the time to get you completely hot, then seriously consider kicking him out of your bed.  It’s not going to get any better if he’s not willing to try.

If you are so badly mismatched on size that deep penetration hurts even when you’re completely ready – like you’ve already had an orgasm and you’re aching for another one! – then you need to avoid the positions that allow deep penetration.  For many couples, that means a ban on doggie-style and on some variants of missionary and cowgirl.

However, many couples have found that they can manage even those positions if the man is careful to adjust his entry angle to point more forward or rearward, so he misses the cervix completely.

For example, if you put a thick cushion or stack of pillows under your butt in missionary and he keeps his hips low and angles his penis up toward your g-spot, the head of his penis will slide right into your anterior fornix, above your cervix, missing the cervix entirely.   You get more g-spot stimulation AND a lot of pleasure from the fornix stretching, and there’s no harm to the cervix.

Or you can skip the cushions and have him slide forward a bit on top of you so his penis is angled downward toward your butt.  The tip will slide into your posterior fornix, which is behind your cervix and is deeper than the anterior fornix.  Check the images below to see what the internal anatomy looks like:
Uterus & vagina

The ring of open space around the cervix is called the fornix.  [Source:  THE PELVIS AND PERINEUM.]

main-qimg-dcb1818dcdcb8ee4e8b792852b4ee1ac diagram

When a woman is fully aroused, her uterus ascends into the abdomen and the inner end of her vagina opens out to create a much larger diameter than the opening, a process called “tenting.”  [Source: Quora.]

In doggy, you can put your chest down and push your abdomen down toward the bed to aim his penis at your posterior fornix, or you can rotate your hips the other way by balancing on your outstretched arms and arching your back upward to aim his penis more at your anterior fornix.  Alternatively, he can get more over on top of you, so he’s pointing more downward, and it will do the same thing.

In cowgirl, you can move your whole body an inch or so either forward or backward from your usual spot before settling all the way down on him.  Or if you prefer to do semi-cowgirl, leaning forward with your hands on his biceps, slide *backward* an inch from the normal point before you settle down.  That will angle his penis into your posterior fornix.

There are lots of other possibilities as long as he doesn’t come straight up the middle!

If even that doesn’t work, try this:  Buy a dense foam disk, ring, or doughnut that is about an inch thick.  (Try the puppy chew toys at a pet store.)  If there’s no hole, or the hole is too small, cut one that is just big enough for his penis.  Then have him wear it as a cock ring.  It will cushion the impact when he thrusts hard and it will keep him from going so deep.  As a bonus, the disk itself can create additional friction and pressure on your clit.

Edit:  A reader whose boyfriend measures 8″ thoughtfully pointed out that you can buy jelly doughnut-style silicone cock rings on Amazon.  They aren’t as thick as the doggie chew toys, but they are smoother, more comfortable, and much stretchier, so you won’t have to struggle to create the right fit.

She makes her boyfriend stack three at a time on his penis, because if there’s only one it tends to slide or roll backward a bit with each thrust.

Four possibilities –  and, no, this is not an endorsement of any of them!

Come Close spacer rings (UK)
Doc Johnson Donut Set
Silicone Pump Sleeve
The Big O Silicone Donut:


He’s too thick for me; all kinds of penetration really hurt.

See the first paragraph above.  He needs to get you completely aroused first.  Every.  Single.  Time.  No exceptions!

On top of that, he needs to use a LOT of lube and to be very patient about penetration.  Your vaginal entrance will stretch to let him in, but it takes time.  If he rushes it, it’s going to hurt you, and the pain – and soon, just the anticipation of the pain –  will cause you to tighten up, which is just the opposite of what you need.

One of my tantra interviewees has this problem, and his wife laid down the law early on:  no penetration without at least three orgasms for her first.  He can use fingers, oral, a vibrator, or a combination, but she’s learned that it takes that much time and stimulation for her to get completely aroused and ready for him, and even then he has to go slow at the start of penetration.  (They’ve been together for almost twenty years, and this still works for them.  She’s just praying she doesn’t shrink too much when she gets to menopause.)

You can help by doing Kegel exercises, including “reverse Kegels.”  Most people do Kegels to strengthen the pelvic floor (the PC or Kegel muscles), but Kegel exercises consist of clenching and relaxing those muscles repeatedly.  By concentrating on the relaxation part, you can learn to consciously relax those muscles when you need to.  You might also want to try learning progressive muscle relaxation.Also, really pay attention and keep track of what positions help you open wider.  For most women, that involves being bent at the hips with your knees wide apart.  In missionary, try raising your knees up toward your body and out to the side.  In cowgirl, kneel with your knees spread and lean more forward if that helps.  Also, cowgirl lets you control the timing, so you can make sure things go slow enough to prevent pain.

If you are still having trouble and you’re really determined to make this work, consider getting a set of vaginal dilators.  These are like tapered dildos in graduated sizes, so you can use them to gradually stretch the muscles and get them to relax more on penetration.  It won’t make you permanently “loose,” but it will enable you to relax and loosen up more when you need to.

Anal follows the same rules, but even more so: arousal, tons of lube, spread wide, go glacially slow, and do some stretching on your own beforehand.  I recommend lots of practice on your part with anal toys before you even try it.  I also strongly recommend using the FC2 condom for all anal sex, but particularly for anal with guys who are overendowed.

Even if you do everything right, it may be impossible to do it without pain.  If that’s the case, say no and stick to it.

Ditto for oral.  If he’s just too big for your mouth, don’t do it.  Become the goddess of handjobs instead.  You can include a lot of sucking and licking in a fantastic lingam massage without ever taking his penis all the way into your mouth.  Every guy I know who has experienced this prefers it to a plain bj.

His penis is an inch wide or less; oral and anal are great, but I can barely feel him in my vagina.

This is the best problem to have, because you can solve it completely.  If your guy has a skinny penis, start doing your kegels!

Buy a Kegel training tool or just use a skinny dildo, your own fingers, or anything about the right size and shape (a skinny bottle, a carrot, an electric toothbrush, even a fat marking pen) and practice squeezing as hard as you can.  At the start, you probably won’t be able to feel much.  After several months of Kegeling three times a day, you should be able to do a tight squeeze on two fingers.

In addition, there are also many positions that guys with skinny penises can experiment with that involve unusual angles other men can’t do.  Just raising your hips during missionary – put a thick cushion under your butt – will position him so his penis is pointing diagonally up toward your G-spot from the inside, instead of straight back toward your cervix.  One friend who likes this describes it as feeling like her partner is plowing a groove through her G-spot – divine!

Any of the T-shaped positions work well, where your bodies are at right angles.  In cowgirl position, for example, settle on him as you normally would, and then slide forward an inch, sit up straight, and rock or slide your clit on his pubic bone.  Once again, this angles the penis forward and forces the head of the penis against your G-spot.  I promise you’ll feel it!

Reverse cowgirl is also great.  Settle down on him and then lean as far forward as you can without hurting him.  The pressure will be on the back wall of your vagina instead of the front, but that can combine very effectively with some anal fingering from him if that is something you enjoy.  (Putting an FC2 condom in ahead of time makes this much easier and more sanitary.)

For other positions where it isn’t as easy to shift forward or back, ask him to shift an inch to one side or to rotate 20-30 degrees.  So in missionary, he could be lined up with you but offset a bit to your right, forcing his penis against the left side of your vaj.  Or he could be turned slightly so he’s straddling one of your legs and his head is lined up with your other shoulder.  And again, this creates a nice sideways pressure.

Keeping the penis angled is one solution.  The alternative is to use positions in which your legs are tightly clamped together.  A simple example is doggy style with your thighs together.  If you angle your butt back a bit. he can kneel on either side of your calves and have good access.

That assumes that your heights are right.  (E.g., my SO is a foot taller than I am, and we just don’t connect in this position without help.)  If you’re too short and he’s too tall, you can adjust by kneeling on a small, thick cushion.  Alternatively, you can experiment with kneeling at the edge of the bed, or on a couch or chair, and having him stand behind you with his legs apart.  It’s just a matter of finding the right place that’s comfortable and the right height and that gives you something to hang onto.  (You need a secure grip because, with your knees together, you’re somewhat unstable.)

Another easy variation is missionary, but with his legs outside of yours.  This means he enters you from above, so you have a tight entrance AND a steep angle, a double win.

The “prone bone” position is identical, except you are face down instead of face up, and his penis hits your g-spot.  Which one works best depends on many things, including his penis length, as well as how well padded you are and where the padding is located.  (E.g., too much “junk in the trunk” can make the prone bone hard to do unless he has a longer-than-average penis.)

His penis is really short – under four inches for real.

In the 3-4″ range, you can still have really good vaginal sex.  Just forget about wild in-and-out thrusting.  Find and stick with the positions that allow the closest connection and then concentrate on a rubbing, grinding action that moves your clit on his pubic bone.  Judging from all the stories I’ve heard and the accounts I’ve read, you’re much more likely to have a vaginal orgasm from that kind of sex than you are from conventional thrusting anyway.

At 2.75″ or less, you get into the “micropenis” range.  If he’s a terrific guy and he’s skillful with his fingers and tongue, you can still have great sex, but vaginal penetration often just isn’t going to be worth the effort.

Start thinking instead about the mechanics of sex the way a lesbian couple would, as if you both have clitorises.  Exchange hand jobs and oral and find ways that you can grind your clit on top of his penis or vice versa.

Vibrators and vaginal toys can add to the pleasure.  For example, you can put a good, strong, egg-style vibrator into your vaj while he’s giving you a yoni massage and the combination can blow the top of your head off.

Also experiment with anal toys and vibrators and see if either or both of you like them.  In particular, get a prostate massager and experiment with giving him prostate massages.  Many men think a prostate orgasm is more intense than any orgasm from normal sex.

Advice for Men

Your penis is between 4 and 6.5 inches in length.
No worries, mate.  You’re normal.  Just focus on making it great for her, and she’ll think you’re a superstar.

You’re “well hung” and proud of it.
First, get over the pride.  Penis competition is a guy thing, so leave it in the locker room.  Most women either don’t care or are going to be concerned or put off by your size.

You need to understand that you will be rejected for sex because of your “package” more often than it will benefit you.

You are going to have to make up for this by being a really good lover.  Be so charming and fun and completely into her that you make it worth her while to go against her better judgment and give you a try.  Learn how to give great handjobs and fantastic head, so she counts the night a success even if she ends up hurting.  Unless she initiates it, don’t eventhink about asking for oral or anal until you’re solidly a couple, and then bring it up in a very casual way.

Sometimes, it’s just not worth it.  If this is a new relationship, her ladybits are on the small side, and the parts don’t fit, it might be better to move on.  As one guy put it:

Having a big dick and romancing a tight woman is like applying to be an Astronaut when you are six feet or taller. Yeah, you’re huge, but you’re not getting in.

The retired NFL lineman with a 9-incher?  He got turned down and dumped repeatedly by women because of lack of fit until he met his wife.

You are in a relationship, your penis is unusually long, short, thick, or thin,and its size is creating pain or other problems for you and your partner.
Read the appropriate section(s) under the advice for women.  If possible, get your partner to read this whole thing with you.  And do your best to find solutions that work for both of you.

There is always a physical puzzle to solve when any two people get together for sex.  How you two fit together will depend on height, weight, proportions, disabilities, even where the weight is distributed on your bodies.  Penis size and vagina size are just two of the pieces in that puzzle.

However, there is one thing you can do that is guaranteed to help:  put her pleasure first and put vaginal penetration far down on your priority list.  It’s only one way to have sex and not necessarily the best.

Here’s one more quote from a memorable on-line discussion about having sex with men with large and small penises.  In this case, the guy was in the sub-3″ range:

He guided me to the carpet and proceeded to perform acts of god on my lady region. I believe years of not being able to have conventional sex have given him oral superpowers. I had orgasms too numerous to count and I’m convinced I partially blacked out at one point (before this night, I would have seriously called bullshit on that actually being a thing, but goddamn if it isn’t real.)

Long story short, I never did get to see the goods that first night. I remember feeling a little embarrassed the next morning for the amount of thanks and praise I gave him immediately following the last, exhausting orgasm (I’m talking a good 20 minutes worth of “OMFG, you are the most amazing man on Earth” type thing.)

Whether you’re too big or too small, if that’s the hand that nature dealt you, then own it and be that guy.

Your partner will help you figure out solutions to any problems you two have fitting together if you make being with you fantastic and not being with you unthinkable for her.

Summing it Up

If I were going to generalize from this, I would say that most American  women would mildly prefer having a lover with a penis that is average to somewhat above-average in length, between 4.5 and 6.5 inches, and would definitely prefer a penis that is between 4 and 7 inches long.

If asked about preferred length in numerical terms, however, they would probably add at least an inch or two to their guesses, since most American women think their current partners’ penises are at least an inch or two longer than they really are.

That is, if you ask American women to state their preferences in inches, they would say “6 to 8 inches” or even “7 to 9 inches.”  This makes sense if they believe, as most of them do, that an average penis is 7 inches long.  But if you ask them to describe their preference in terms relative to the penis they are most familiar with, most will say “my boyfriend’s size, or maybe a bit longer.”

Shorter or longer penises require some adjustments during vaginal sex, but are definitely manageable.

Women who like giving oral and/or receiving anal have a definite preference for an average or narrow penis, one with a 5″ circumference or less, while women with poor muscle tone in the vaginal area preferred a wider one.

To put all of this in context, women’s preferences on penis size, except in really extreme cases, were very mild, ranking far below considerations like “cares about me,” “makes me laugh,” “has good oral hygiene,” “is confident,” “has nice hands,” “dresses well,” “is smart and well-educated,” “smells good,” “kisses well,” and “gives good head” in women’s actual and stated priorities.

So, men…  Instead of worrying about one thing you can’t change, you would be much better off working on the many things you can change that are far more important.  If you approach love and sex with humor, enthusiasm, imagination, confidence, knowledge, skill, awareness of your partner, and a desire to find out what gives her pleasure, your physical dimensions will not matter at all.